Upper Deck Entertainment Forums

I am not sure how to ask this so I just going to tell what happen I was at a Yugioh tourney today

Player Return his Gladiator Beast back to the deck but in stead of puting the card on top of the deck and then start Shuffling he place the card in the middle of the deck and then started Shuffling

I was told by a Judge that this is counted as staking your deck I am wandering if that is still the case or if this is allowed as today I was told it is ok to do this?

I UDE is working on if to allowed some kind of Pre-Seting but till then is this allowed or not  Thank you

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Leader and fonder of Team Mythology
Level 1 Yu-Gi-Oh! Rule,T.O., Player Management

The "Gladiator Beast" effect returns the cards to the deck (tagging-out)... "if this card attacked or was attacked, you can return it to the Deck to Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck".

At the point the deck is to be randomized, I see no problem in placing the card in the middle, top, or bottom of the deck, so long as the shuffling is done well. Additionally, the player must allow his/her opponent the opportunity to cut (or shuffle then cut).

However, to the question itself, placing the card into (instead on top of) the deck before shuffling is not a method of stacking or pre-sorting.

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Ken Maness
Pflugerville, Tx
RK 2 YGO, PM2, Specialist 2, TO 1

Placing a card "On top of" or "On Bottom of" the deck is easier to "manipulate" during a shuffle than in the middle of the deck where it could be between a range of other cards.  If you saw him stacking the deck while looking for the GB to summon, THAT would be Pre-Seting the deck

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107-744-616
Circle of Tragedy Duels
YGORK2, PM1, TO1
UDE May Use My Card Ideas At Will!
EVERYTHING I SAY IS PERSONAL OPINION
Prepare for the coming Global Crisis

1330860:

I am not sure how to ask this so I just going to tell what happen I was at a Yugioh tourney today

Player Return his Gladiator Beast back to the deck but in stead of puting the card on top of the deck and then start Shuffling he place the card in the middle of the deck and then started Shuffling

I was told by a Judge that this is counted as staking your deck I am wandering if that is still the case or if this is allowed as today I was told it is ok to do this?

I UDE is working on if to allowed some kind of Pre-Seting but till then is this allowed or not  Thank you

you were told incorrectly

As long as the cards are face down, then the shuffle is legal

The only "pre-seting" I can think of, is organization of cards through marked cards or while face up, which is clearly cheating

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Player Management 1
Tournament Organizer 1
Demo Team Certification 1
Yu-Gi-Oh! Rules Test 1

And to add to the general concensus...  placing it at the top, bottom, or middle is not relevant.  What is relevant is...  Is the deck randomized?   as our tournament policies state...

17.                  Shuffling

 To guarantee fairness, each player must ensure that his or her deck is thoroughly randomized before presenting it to an opponent at the start of any game. Players are encouraged to mix several different shuffling methods, such as pile shuffling and riffle shuffling, as they randomize their decks.  

......... 

Presenting your deck to your opponent implicitly states that you have thoroughly randomized your deck. Players may not pre-set or sort their decks in any specific order before shuffling. Stacking a deck or illegally manipulating the order of the cards while shuffling is considered cheating.

Enjoy the game.

Just now noticing this thread .

 

This is definatly not against the rules as stated above. When I play and I am side decking or what not I always put the cards into the middle of my deck. As in my opinion that is the best way to randomize them. Also if you put the cards on the top or bottom as Johnist stated they are alot easier to manipulate...especially using the shuffle where you put one stack on top of each other....like the shuffle on the Yugioh show. By putting the cards anywhere in the deck you are fine as long as you randomize it afterwards in the Policy Document, no matter what method of randomization, as long as they are randomized.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Garren

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LvL 1 Yugioh Rules
LvL 1 Player Management
I work at Walts Cards in Dundalk, Maryland

Thank you all I was not sure if this was or not class as Stacking  thanks you for clearning this up for me

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Leader and fonder of Team Mythology
Level 1 Yu-Gi-Oh! Rule,T.O., Player Management

"Stacking" implies they are intentionally trying to place the card in a specific combo.  By placing it randomly in the deck, (without looking at the card on top and bottom) I do not believe that they are trying to "stack" the deck.

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107-744-616
Circle of Tragedy Duels
YGORK2, PM1, TO1
UDE May Use My Card Ideas At Will!
EVERYTHING I SAY IS PERSONAL OPINION
Prepare for the coming Global Crisis

hey.just wanted to check something in regards to this stacking...before shuffling...the deck must be randomized right...i understand stacking is when you place combos like ddraw, mali, teleport together but what about after a round, randomly adjusting back your deck(without stacking)...just to ensure you dont draw all monsters or all S/Ts?....is this allowed at all?if so...after the match what are you allowed to do with your deck in terms of "randomizing"...what is the penalty for stacking...continuously(a problem i have been dealing with too often)....thanks

1745047:

randomly adjusting back your deck(without stacking)...just to ensure you dont draw all monsters or all S/Ts?....is this allowed at all?

This right here is pretty much the definition of stacking.  Adjusting your deck to ensure anything is stacking.  If you know or have a general idea of where cards are or aren't then your deck is not randomized. 

The penalty for this is:

Unsporting Conduct—Cheating (Penalty: Disqualification without Prize)

If you want to further separate cards within your deck or randomize your deck better, I would employ different shuffling techniques as you shuffle, such as riffle shuffling and pile shuffling.

My standard recommendation is that as long it is face down and you don't look at the cards (this include separating into piles) it can not possibly be considered stacking.

For example:  at the end of your match you collect all your resources face down and keeping them face down randomly insert them in your deck then shuffling it well afterward.

However the best way in my opinion to 'de-clump' is a pile shuffle (it has been explained many times if you don't understand the term just search for it) combined with regular shuffles.

There has been an ongoing debate about it and the last official word that I saw from UDE was that as long as they FULLY randomize it before presenting to the opponent anything is fine. The catch here is what is considered sufficient randomization can be a bit subjective (depending on the skill of the shuffler and types of shuffles used). That is why I still give my original recommendation (avoid even the appearance of wrong doing).

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WoW RK2
VS RK2
YGO RK2
PM LV2
Specialist LV2 (formerly demo team)
TO LV1

1934077:

1745047:

randomly adjusting back your deck(without stacking)...just to ensure you dont draw all monsters or all S/Ts?....is this allowed at all?

This right here is pretty much the definition of stacking.  Adjusting your deck to ensure anything is stacking.  If you know or have a general idea of where cards are or aren't then your deck is not randomized. 

The penalty for this is:

Unsporting Conduct—Cheating (Penalty: Disqualification without Prize)

If you want to further separate cards within your deck or randomize your deck better, I would employ different shuffling techniques as you shuffle, such as riffle shuffling and pile shuffling.

This sounds to me like an example of "de-clumping" your deck which has been quite the hot topic on many threads.  I'll don't think i'll ever DQ someone for de-clumping their deck... to do so is to also say that smokescreening is a DQ'able offense.  It's very important that players know after they've manipulated their deck either by de-clumping a few cards, sideboarding, de-sideboarding, smokescreening, or even searching that they sufficiently randomize their decks.  I've sometimes during a search effect grabbed 2 cards that are great choices and put them side by side so that i can make a better decision.  The one i don't choose goes somewhere randomly into the deck and THEN i shuffle well.  That doesn't mean that i've stacked my deck.

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Alex Evans
Unity Entertainment
Event Manager